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i am not trying to answer for gto but if you raise the rear you have to raise the front as well to maintain the overall balance of handling and weight distribution
bmw carefully has those pretty much ideal as stock
the bmw stanchion tubes are not adjustable like most bikes that leave some extra length
because the bmw top bridge/yoke is just a plate captured by the stanchion tube cap/top bolt
the r80 tank lends itself to blend in with a 4'' higher sreating from the images and without looking funky
thats where you need to go in my opinion
ideally you will want the bars forward a couple inches annd the pegs back 3-4''
and if a cafe style seat make sure it leaves room for you to be seated back a bit further than a rider 10'' shorter than you
 

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You are correct Geeto, I have been on such sites at BikeExif and others but simply to rule in AND rule out what I like and what I do not. I have finally decided on a 1986 R80, which I will be picking up next week. The current owner changed the handlebars, removed the fairings and, IMO, it is on its way to where I want to be without starting from scratch with a full fairing bike. The picture you posted just above this paragraph is exactly along the lines of the build I am looking to do, but with a taller seat and a few other mods. Do you have any suggestions on a brand or make of rear mono shock that would achieve the desired ride height of bringing up the back end?
If you are going for the 1986 R80, then my recomendation is to go get the Down and Out Subframe, seat, and rear fender setup:

Down & Out Motorcycles | D&O BMW Mono Shock Custom Subframe & Seat Base

yeah it is pricey but it's bolt on. If you look at how they do their subframes they actually raise the subframe rails up higher than stock, which is preferable to raising the rear of the bike up in the suspension, because it opens up the angles in your knees and hips as well. Yeah their seat is a little thin, but down the road you can take it to an upholsterer and have them remake the cover and add padding, which would bring it up further.

If your monoshock works, leave it alone. It's pretty decent for what it is, and when you see replacement costs for one it's enough to say forget it. Also you don't want to monkey too much with raising it up because you'll stress the U-joint. Height adjustments you'll want to do with the subframe and the seat.

here is a bike with the D&O subframe you can see how much taller it is:
featured.jpg

esp when you compare it with a stock subframe one like this:
8925024.jpg

Also, if there is a local shop near you, you could have them fab up something. The only thing the subframe has to do on a monolever is support the weight of the rider (older twinshocks also mount the shocks) and a competent shop that can weld and bend tube could make something to your custom specs.
 

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the d&o subframe is taller but what a bunch of garbage in design
srsly you could not make a rear fender look and be more ill-fitting if you tried
and the seat is just following a brain dead retarded clown sheeple posse of moronic trends that simply makes me think of the olkd fable
the emperor has no clothes
 

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the d&o subframe is taller but what a bunch of garbage in design
srsly you could not make a rear fender look and be more ill-fitting if you tried
and the seat is just following a brain dead retarded clown sheeple posse of moronic trends that simply makes me think of the olkd fable
the emperor has no clothes
Yeah it's not "super great" but it's sturdy enough and for people looking for a bolt on solution it's easy. The rear fender thing does piss me off a little but it still works as a fender so..... As a tall person haveing a flat seat to slide back on makes a world of difference - I took my R80 out for a spin yesterday to run errands and I was practically sitting on the hump between the rider and passenger cutout.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
If you are going for the 1986 R80, then my recomendation is to go get the Down and Out Subframe, seat, and rear fender setup:

Down & Out Motorcycles | D&O BMW Mono Shock Custom Subframe & Seat Base

yeah it is pricey but it's bolt on. If you look at how they do their subframes they actually raise the subframe rails up higher than stock, which is preferable to raising the rear of the bike up in the suspension, because it opens up the angles in your knees and hips as well. Yeah their seat is a little thin, but down the road you can take it to an upholsterer and have them remake the cover and add padding, which would bring it up further.

If your monoshock works, leave it alone. It's pretty decent for what it is, and when you see replacement costs for one it's enough to say forget it. Also you don't want to monkey too much with raising it up because you'll stress the U-joint. Height adjustments you'll want to do with the subframe and the seat.

here is a bike with the D&O subframe you can see how much taller it is:
View attachment 96989

esp when you compare it with a stock subframe one like this:
View attachment 96991

Also, if there is a local shop near you, you could have them fab up something. The only thing the subframe has to do on a monolever is support the weight of the rider (older twinshocks also mount the shocks) and a competent shop that can weld and bend tube could make something to your custom specs.


Very helpful. I will be picking up the bike this week and although I am not sure what brand of bolt on subframe they purchased, it doesn't look too far off from the ride height of the one from D and O customs that you referenced. Here is a pic, do you agree? This seat looks razor thin so that's going to be the first thing to replace.



 

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Very helpful. I will be picking up the bike this week and although I am not sure what brand of bolt on subframe they purchased, it doesn't look too far off from the ride height of the one from D and O customs that you referenced. Here is a pic, do you agree? This seat looks razor thin so that's going to be the first thing to replace.



I hope it was cheap.
 

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Very helpful. I will be picking up the bike this week and although I am not sure what brand of bolt on subframe they purchased, it doesn't look too far off from the ride height of the one from D and O customs that you referenced. Here is a pic, do you agree?
Nope, that one sits much lower, plus you can see the ends of it. dude that one looks sketchy as hell because it lacks the uprights that run from the peg brackets to the middle of the subframe to support rider weight. I wouldn't ride that. It looks homemade or like someone bought a generic seat hoop off ebay and welded on some mounting tabs. Seriously, that literally scares the shit out of me as I don't think those stock forward subframe brackets were meant to take a 200lb+ shearing load. Maybe ze germans built in enough of a safety margin but I wouldn't bet my life on it by riding it.

Also no rear fender and no provision for a rear fender mount. Pitch that garbage in the trash. I thought we discussed this.

This seat looks razor thin so that's going to be the first thing to replace.
yeah he probably bought the hoop as seat pan as a set and then stretched some boat vinyl over it. I'm telling you - throw the whole back end away and start over.

So the good news is that you wanted a project and you sure bought one. I think you have some good bones there, but there are a lot of red flags. Let's address some of them.

- No stock gauges. So here is a fun fact, the generator light on the instrument panel is essential for the bike to charge. Don't ask me why, I didn't design it - but those kooks in bmw engineering routed the circuit through that light so when it isn't there or blow out the bike doesn't charge (fun fact the generator light should be on at idle and go out as revs climb). The bike also won't charge if another light of different amp draw is put in it's place, like the one say as part of the aftermarket gauge. I am not saying this was done correctly or incorrectly since I haven't seen the bike, but it is my 100% recomendation that you put a multimeter on the battery while the bike is running to see if it is charging at all. you should see a draw at idle (under 13.8) and 15.8V at redline. I would also inspect how that gauge is wired in because if it is home depot crimp connectors and electrical tape - you have your work cut out for you.

- no signals. So my bike didn't come with signals either and it has been a fun adventure wiring them in because of how the bmw is wired in general. Actually, this is the one part of the bike that is most like a car, and it's a simple circuit, it even uses a flasher solenoid for an 80's saab and 2000's toyotas. I got lucky and my PO had tucked the wires away instead of clipping or cutting them. Still, it has been an adventure converting to LEDs, esp with how well insulated and shielded everything is from the factory. you can't just throw an LED compatible flasher in the system and call it a day, and it all ties into the idiot light panel on the stock gauges as well - so that will be fun if it's been monkeyed with.

- The wiring in general: that trascan worthy headlight and the way way way too small taillight give me pause to think that the entire electrical system on this bike has been monkey'ed with. there is a reason why snowbum on his site has an entire tolken like saga about the correct bulbs and the ones that could be used as a replacement when the 100% correct ones are not available. Care has to be taken when building a custom and I'm seeing way way way too many cheap ebay parts to think that it happened. Not that I am against ebay parts mind you, but in moderation, for certain things.

- Exhaust: the good news is that the PO left everything from the stock headpipes to the cat and only removed the rust prone and heavy stock mufflers. The bad news is that I am not seeing how those new silencers are attached to the frame, and the stock system without the silencers is too heavy to be held up by the headpipes. I would inspect that system for cracking (probably hasn't happened yet) and then find a way to attach those cheapie twee mufflers to the peg mount they seem to be jammed up against. If they are attached, then carry on.

- Fork gaiters: WTF?!?!. Aside from being useless, they look like they are hiding rust. Also your fork slider dust covers are missing.

- Front Brake lines: Those aftermarket ones look sketch as hell. I wouldn't trust that they don't rub the tire at some point. The stock setup uses a hardline crossover (which bmw still makes) that runs inside the stock fender. It does a good job and keep thinks clear of spinning bits and bobs. The good news is that the front fender looks like a stock one that has been cut down and you could probably convert back to the stock setup.

The airbox and 90% of the exhaust doesn't look touched so that is probably a good sign that the engine hasn't been messed with by whomever committed this war crime of customization on that bike, so if it was maintained it probably runs well. Don't trash the airbox and run those twee pod filters unless you are planning to replace those CV carbs with flatsides. your intake is not restricted, it is well designed by BMW engineers, and everybody who monkeys with it for a look without putting in a big bore kit, better carbs, etc...typically loses power and also ride-ability in the midrange. You have a nice aftermarket sidestand (fun fact, R series monolevers didn't come with side stands, and I like yours better than the one I have), your rear drive doesn't seem to be leaking anywhere, and you have the dual disc setup. the stock bar controls are still there, the hard to find stock tank is still there (yes that tank is very difficult to find even though it is the same shape as the 1977-1984 tank - the tunnel is different to clear the electrics on the - 85-95 bikes).

So what would I do if I were you (ie. some fun projects that I feel just make the bike better)?

- Start with the front end and service the whole thing. Check the dates on the tires, they look new but you can never be too careful. Since those wheels look powdercoated, hopefully new wheel bearings were installed and properly greased. Take the forks apart, clean out the sliders, and put in new fluid and seals. It's cheap insurance and a fun project. Plus you can remove the reflectors and polish or paint the lower fork legs while you are there.

- check the steering head bearings to make sure they are in good shape. if not replace.

- give the bike a full fluid and filter service. Pay very careful attention to the $2000 o-ring in the oil filter cover (called that because if you install it properly you oil seize your engine). Check the valve lash settings.

- check the front brakes for dragging, rebuild the calipers if you must. Figure out that line setup. I run the stock hard line crossover with a single braided line up to the master - much cleaner.

- As someone who spent an entire summer filling his bmw tank through the petcock hole, replace that key'ed fuel cap. they are a common failure item and when they break they lock you out and have to be drilled to be opened. I replaced my broken one with this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Petrol-Cap-for-BMW-90S-R100-R80-100R-with-Versenktem-Petrol-Cap/153281298754?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

- Figure out that rear. I've given you some suggestions on a good subframe, but there are other makers like Von Zeti, ritmeo sereno, Flatracer, wimoto. All of these are legit companies that make a product that works and have customers that attest to their quality. Flatracer makes a way better rear fender setup than D&O but they don't make a subframe for the monolever (they do make a lot of parts that work with the stock subframe). I just don't trust that setup you have now man.
 

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the more i look at that crapshit that d o pawns off the more i loose faith in you for promoting such pure garbage geetee zero
you are farking talking out both sides of your mouf and lout yer bunghole all at the same time
if they cant do any better than that bile activating fender curfunkel as a photo to promote themselves
how the fark do they get the holes lined up in the subframes ?
how do they get any shit on the paper
er when wiping there asses ?
man you need to suk it up and own it fer fucks sake you just get done telling the guy not to use the excuse its only going to be for short rides ,it doesnt matter
you turn right over and spew out ah it just a crooked fender no biggee that it is squished horribly out of shape in the most retarded manner
and the seat can be done right later after you pay these fuckers 3x the value cause it is scrap
c'mon farker you either have principles or you do not
and then you say the subframe is sketchy
wtf you sound like a skateboarder
why not explain that it is a cantilevered type structure ,his bikes seat frame,done purely for a look with zero regard for safety that is totally wrong for a motorcycle in the first place ,because the only way it can hold up and not constantly be flexing which even\tually leads to cracking and failure of tubes and or weldements
the only way it can be applied safely is if it is heavilly butressed at the join to the frame and if it is made of farking heavy ass tubing
heavy enough to not flex
this is just contrary to how motorbikes or any motor vehicle is built ,to bild something extremely more heavy just for a look
but trhere is the catch it is for sure not biuilt heavy enough to minimise flex
i dont believe for a minute that the seat frame in our new buddies bike is 25lbs of 1'' id 1/4'' wall steel tube and 3/16 gusset plates at the butress
because whoever built it is as stupid as the crooks at clown n drown
because all that seat frame needs (besides bewing about 4'' longer so that the upkicked hoop matches the tire curve at full bump and hence can provide a non moron looking fitment of a fender)is the tubes as you did correctly promote
and then it at the same time could be raised the 3-4'' that he needs
but that clown and pout shit that you have posted here ,i mean cmon its got to be a troll prank you are doing right ?
otherwise you owe us all a fucking apolgy or explanation why you would bring yourself down to the level of sxuch double speak and promoting a completely fraudulent outfit like clown n pound
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Wow, a lot to take in on this thread now for me. Yes, the subframe was handmade by the previous owner as I have confirmed, and I will be replacing it with a new one. I really like this one from Wimoto:



The one from Down and Out has the additional bracing on the sides, which I am sure makes for a more sturdy frame, although not quite as cool of a minimalist style as the one from Wimoto.



Anyone have any options, good or bad, on the Wimoto one?


Also saw this one from the Weld Yard:
 

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... Anyone have any options, good or bad, on the Wimoto one?
Only that it is mounted to a bike that is very obviously incomplete and inoperable, so that suggests the saddle and mount is untested. It will also force you so far forward on the tank that your knees are going to be almost up to the tank badge :/ Remember when Geeto said the most comfortable position is when his bum is slid back all the way to or past the first hump behind the riders part of the saddle, I concur with that and we are both almost certainly shorter in the leg then you.

"minimalist style" my ass, these are incomplete chopped up relics of once nice ridable motorcycles. Where do you live, because none of those bikes would pass as street legal in a developed country & shite little tail lights and signals like that are going to get you killed. I was rear ended once and thankful that BMW did a good job on their rear end crash testing, had I been riding any of those assless chopper bobbers I would now be riding a wheel chair at best. Sorry to sound so negative but we old guys are just not seeing a lot to impress here so far unless the viewer knows zero about actually riding motorcycles, these are butt ugly back yard art projects but if that is what you really want to ride, go for it.

"$4k, has 27k miles on it." 4k american $ and 27k miles on not the original speedometer!
Holy, the price for my BMW just went up.
 

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Wow, a lot to take in on this thread now for me. Yes, the subframe was handmade by the previous owner as I have confirmed, and I will be replacing it with a new one. I really like this one from Wimoto

I just got done writing you a novel that that this was not a good design and for your size was something to avoid. So no, bad Iamtheant.

The one from Down and Out has the additional bracing on the sides, which I am sure makes for a more sturdy frame, although not quite as cool of a minimalist style as the one from Wimoto.

Think about it, how much more stable is a table with 4 legs rather than a shelf screwed into the wall?


Anyone have any options, good or bad, on the Wimoto one?
yeah, you are putting looks ahead of practical requirements. I wouldn't get that wimoto one without the support structure.


sssIt has the support It has the support sAlso saw this one from the Weld Yard:
it still has the support struts, they just run behind the shock, vs running outside the shock. It's probably a steeper angle than stock, and therefore less stong, but you would have to see it in person.
 

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the more i look at that crapshit that d o pawns off the more i loose faith in you for promoting such pure garbage geetee zero
you are farking talking out both sides of your mouf and lout yer bunghole all at the same time
if they cant do any better than that bile activating fender curfunkel as a photo to promote themselves
how the fark do they get the holes lined up in the subframes ?
how do they get any shit on the paper
er when wiping there asses ?
man you need to suk it up and own it fer fucks sake you just get done telling the guy not to use the excuse its only going to be for short rides ,it doesnt matter
you turn right over and spew out ah it just a crooked fender no biggee that it is squished horribly out of shape in the most retarded manner
and the seat can be done right later after you pay these fuckers 3x the value cause it is scrap
c'mon farker you either have principles or you do not
and then you say the subframe is sketchy
wtf you sound like a skateboarder
why not explain that it is a cantilevered type structure ,his bikes seat frame,done purely for a look with zero regard for safety that is totally wrong for a motorcycle in the first place ,because the only way it can hold up and not constantly be flexing which even\tually leads to cracking and failure of tubes and or weldements
the only way it can be applied safely is if it is heavilly butressed at the join to the frame and if it is made of farking heavy ass tubing
heavy enough to not flex
this is just contrary to how motorbikes or any motor vehicle is built ,to bild something extremely more heavy just for a look
but trhere is the catch it is for sure not biuilt heavy enough to minimise flex
i dont believe for a minute that the seat frame in our new buddies bike is 25lbs of 1'' id 1/4'' wall steel tube and 3/16 gusset plates at the butress
because whoever built it is as stupid as the crooks at clown n drown
because all that seat frame needs (besides bewing about 4'' longer so that the upkicked hoop matches the tire curve at full bump and hence can provide a non moron looking fitment of a fender)is the tubes as you did correctly promote
and then it at the same time could be raised the 3-4'' that he needs
but that clown and pout shit that you have posted here ,i mean cmon its got to be a troll prank you are doing right ?
otherwise you owe us all a fucking apolgy or explanation why you would bring yourself down to the level of sxuch double speak and promoting a completely fraudulent outfit like clown n pound
We could write a russian trilogy novel as to the flexibility flaws of the BMW double cradle frame used for the airheads from 1971-1995. It has inspired many humorous nicknames like the rubber cow or gummikuh in german, the wobbly oil slick, the crashed airplane, the drunk penguin, the shin basher, etc... And there is a lot to be gleaned from looking at how outfits like krauser and butler and smith managed to get these horizontally opposed paint shakers to actually go around a corner. But, I've had this conversation with several friends now, several of whom are engineers, some who are also bmw-ophiles, one bmw airhead racer, and the general consensus is that when it comes to the subframe on a monolever - it's basically a chair and won't solve any of the flexibility ills inherent in the cradle frame itself. It needs to be as strong as a chair can be for that role which means holding up about 600lbs (twice the weight of 2 up riders). For those things many other outfits sell frame braces and other things to help with the frame flex.

With respect to Down and Out, I found out about them when a guy at our local bike night showed up with a monolever with one of the subframes and I had a chance to inspect it. He had made is own fender so he didn't have their setup, but the subframe had pretty decent welds and looked to be a well made part. It was not thin wall tube, and the mounting brackets were not as thin as they appeared in pics. I would have preferred a boxed mount but the stock subframe just has pinched tube ends so...not really all that high tech. I talked to him at length about instillation and it went right on with no "adjustment". He claimed they were jig built but I have not verified that. I will agree that their photos are hipster and terrible, and that some of the bikes their stuff is showing up on is equally hipster and terrible, but that doesn't mean they didn't get something right.

With respect to Flatracer, another member on here has their parts on his bike and has spoken highly of them

Vonzetti and wimoto, eh....I saw twinshocks with those parts two years ago at mid ohio VMD (not as racers, street bikes). The vonzetti stuff was crude but not unsafe as far as I could tell, and the wimoto stuff was about the same. If all you need is a chair, they will do.

as to this

why not explain that it is a cantilevered type structure ,his bikes seat frame,done purely for a look with zero regard for safety that is totally wrong for a motorcycle in the first place ,because the only way it can hold up and not constantly be flexing which even\tually leads to cracking and failure of tubes and or weldements
the only way it can be applied safely is if it is heavilly butressed at the join to the frame and if it is made of farking heavy ass tubing
heavy enough to not flex
this is just contrary to how motorbikes or any motor vehicle is built ,to bild something extremely more heavy just for a look
you and I agree on this point and I have you to explain it in more detail. I will point out with respect to your statements on rear fenders stock bmw fenders are all plastic starting with the /5, non structural, and have these center line mounts that offer very little lateral support. In fact I had a throw over saddlebag bump into my rear fender last year on my R80 and it pushed the damn thing right into the wheel, leaving a black rub mark on the rim. the only job of a BMW rear fender is to keep the mud and crap flung off the rear tire from getting everywhere. as long as whatever replaces that does that same function - more power to it. There is so much clearance in the rear of the bike at full travel that I wouldn't worry about the rear wheel hitting the subframe - it's not like a japanese bike where the rear frame section sits much lower and the top of the tire passes it under normal suspension compression.

I have said from the beginning I am not expert on these things. I'm a guy doing his own research to modify his own bike. I'm def not an engineer, and I am sharing my opinions.
 

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I'm pretty tall and this is the perfect bike for a tall guy. Half the money and the whole bike is still there. Even comes with soft luggage, bike cover and a matching Corbin backrest. :) Whats not to love. $2,400 CDN. That's like what? $1900 US. You'd have enough left to buy a cheaper chopped up not so good short rides only bike. Act now cuz it's goin fast hahaha. See what I did there? It is fast though...
IMG_1671.JPG IMG_1671.JPG
 

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I think he mentioned he had an SV650 or something. This was going to be his play bike.

I am not going to comment on the price, but if I knew he was going to buy THAT chopped up R80 I would have sold him mine for $1K cheaper than he paid - and trust me, mine's way nicer.
 
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