Sorry... atleast I will be a helper.
Aaron
Aaron
The Nightmare Continues
Well...sounds like Hiroshi/someone tried to tighten the head nuts on Hiroshi's bike to stop a leak in the head cover gasket. All the nuts were of course already tightened to max allowed torque for their size...so of course they pulled the threads out of the block at the bottom of the stud.
Which means Friday afternoon and evening I get to spend my time tearing down the whole top end of the engine to get to the base of the studs so I can install a helicoil. Should be able to get it done in about four hours. Wonder how many of the other studs are stripped out too. The freakin things were tightened to 15 ft/lbs already.
When will people learn you can't just through a wrench on these bikes and start doing shit unless you know what you're doing.
What a freakin pain in the ass...I was really looking forward to a relaxing weekend at the track.
JohnnyB
Which means Friday afternoon and evening I get to spend my time tearing down the whole top end of the engine to get to the base of the studs so I can install a helicoil. Should be able to get it done in about four hours. Wonder how many of the other studs are stripped out too. The freakin things were tightened to 15 ft/lbs already.
When will people learn you can't just through a wrench on these bikes and start doing shit unless you know what you're doing.
What a freakin pain in the ass...I was really looking forward to a relaxing weekend at the track.
JohnnyB
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
Sorry..... At least I'll be a heckler!!!
Champ
Champ
i didn't say anything.
-strangely quiet tex
-strangely quiet tex
I don't fuck up...things around me fuck up and then draw me into their fucked up world like some kind of fucked up black fucking hole.
.....Fuck.
JohnnyB
.....Fuck.
JohnnyB
Now Johnny!!!!!
Chill out buddy. You seem to be REALLY bothered by a silly oil leak. Consider the machine and the person who owns it. Simma down now!!! Go work on your own race bike!! I started last night on the Ducati, I have a nice little laundry list I have to deal with before next weekend. Belly pan, new front brake cable, change all the oils including the fork oil which I do every 5-7 years, new chain, new spark plugs-every 2 years-install nos kit.
I'll be thinking of you as I drink beer and use my adjustable on my racer.
Champ
Chill out buddy. You seem to be REALLY bothered by a silly oil leak. Consider the machine and the person who owns it. Simma down now!!! Go work on your own race bike!! I started last night on the Ducati, I have a nice little laundry list I have to deal with before next weekend. Belly pan, new front brake cable, change all the oils including the fork oil which I do every 5-7 years, new chain, new spark plugs-every 2 years-install nos kit.
I'll be thinking of you as I drink beer and use my adjustable on my racer.
Champ
Go out in the yard and yell "FUCKIN FUCKITY FUCK!"quote:
I don't fuck up...things around me fuck up and then draw me into their fucked up world like some kind of fucked up black fucking hole.
Helps me. Especially if I have a belly full of beer.
I pulled my RZ350's engine apart yesterday. Oh wow. Right piston's top is mostly gone. Little bits of melted aluminum all around the cylinder, out the exhaust port. And the conrod big end bearing squeeks when I move the rod.
What the Champ really means is, he's going over to BCM to pick up his bike, return Bruces adjustable, and then have a beer with him.
Aaron
Sorry, I can't seem to help myself
Aaron
Sorry, I can't seem to help myself
c'mon aaron,
don't let all my secrets out. btw, bcm has been sold to a former employee !!! i only hope that by bruce selling the shop he will have more time to work on my projects!!! i've had a new racer project there for the past 3 years in a tupperware box, very frustrating. i also have a simple top end rebuild for my 250 giro bike that has been there for 4 months and the snails are all over it!!
oh if i only had the talent that you have..........
Champ
don't let all my secrets out. btw, bcm has been sold to a former employee !!! i only hope that by bruce selling the shop he will have more time to work on my projects!!! i've had a new racer project there for the past 3 years in a tupperware box, very frustrating. i also have a simple top end rebuild for my 250 giro bike that has been there for 4 months and the snails are all over it!!
oh if i only had the talent that you have..........
Champ
JS,
Well it WAS a silly oil leak. Now it's stripped cylinder studs..which must be fixed to even race the bike at all.
How the hell do you strip cylinder studs on a 175...don't think I've ever heard of anyone else doing that.
There will be much cursing at NHIS on friday night.
JohnnyB
Well it WAS a silly oil leak. Now it's stripped cylinder studs..which must be fixed to even race the bike at all.
How the hell do you strip cylinder studs on a 175...don't think I've ever heard of anyone else doing that.
There will be much cursing at NHIS on friday night.
JohnnyB
My talent will be brought over in the same size thimble of your knowledge. Between the 2 of we could use maybe a larger thimble. I'm just a hack who uses Bransons brain power.quote:
c'mon aaron,
don't let all my secrets out. btw, bcm has been sold to a former employee !!! i only hope that by bruce selling the shop he will have more time to work on my projects!!! i've had a new racer project there for the past 3 years in a tupperware box, very frustrating. i also have a simple top end rebuild for my 250 giro bike that has been there for 4 months and the snails are all over it!!
oh if i only had the talent that you have..........
Champ
Aaron
Obviously my brain power doesn't extend as far as using the word "no" when someone asks me to build them a bike.
JohnnyB
JohnnyB
JB, just wanted a clarification.
Did the stud actually strip out of the top of the cases (below the barrels)?
That's what it sounds like you've been describing. Jesus that would take a bit of wrenching . . . .
scott
Did the stud actually strip out of the top of the cases (below the barrels)?
That's what it sounds like you've been describing. Jesus that would take a bit of wrenching . . . .
scott
I thought it was at the top. Either way Hiroshi must be eating his spinach.
Aaron
Aaron
The info I got from Hiroshi leads me to believe it's the bottom of the stud. They said it won't tighten...not sure exactly what that means but I'm guessing a stripped block....which would be quite rare...I'd think you'd twist the stud off before stripping the hole unless it was bunged up to begin with. I checked them pretty good because I had to Heli-Coil the far left front stud hole...it's got an intersecting bolt hole in it that weakens the threads on that stud. They all torqued up nicely to 15 ft/lbs when I assembled the engine.
I have my fingers crossed that maybe it's a streached stud, or one that has backed out and the acorn nut bottoms on the stud top...something like that. But I doubt it. Sounds like it was over torqued...then he ran it, heated up and expanded the cylinder enough to pop the threads out of the block...about the only way you can do it because torquing with a wrench would twist/snap the stud I think.
As you guys know the bottom of the 175 studs has a lip that seats against the block surface....very hard to strip out because it kind of locks into place....but it will pull straight up and out with enough force...and expansion provides a lot of force, combined with the fact that the engine is a stressed frame component. Note that stud is one of the two most highly stressed studs because of where it attaches to the frame.
It's also possible they lost the washer....which might allow the stud to bottom/top out in the acrorn nut (the nut came off while he was riding and lodged in a cavity of the head cover)....Ohhh...what a joy it would be if that was the case. But once again I doubt it...as my Karma building project of the last few years would not allow such a grand thing to happen at this early stage.
I can have the engine out in about 15 minutes...the major pains will be getting the barrels back on the pistons ( I'll need some extra hands for that) and keeping track of the cam chain while I disassemble everything. I break the chain and then use lengths of saftey wire to allow me to lift the head clear while keeping tension on the chain, then grab the wires below the head and remove the head, same process with the cylinders...then I tie off the wires to keep tension on the chain while I perform the work. If the chain comes off the crank it can be a bitch to get back on. If everything goes smooth...could be a couple of hours...if I have problems...maybe five hours.
Everyone send good luck vibes that it's something simple.
JohnnyB
I have my fingers crossed that maybe it's a streached stud, or one that has backed out and the acorn nut bottoms on the stud top...something like that. But I doubt it. Sounds like it was over torqued...then he ran it, heated up and expanded the cylinder enough to pop the threads out of the block...about the only way you can do it because torquing with a wrench would twist/snap the stud I think.
As you guys know the bottom of the 175 studs has a lip that seats against the block surface....very hard to strip out because it kind of locks into place....but it will pull straight up and out with enough force...and expansion provides a lot of force, combined with the fact that the engine is a stressed frame component. Note that stud is one of the two most highly stressed studs because of where it attaches to the frame.
It's also possible they lost the washer....which might allow the stud to bottom/top out in the acrorn nut (the nut came off while he was riding and lodged in a cavity of the head cover)....Ohhh...what a joy it would be if that was the case. But once again I doubt it...as my Karma building project of the last few years would not allow such a grand thing to happen at this early stage.
I can have the engine out in about 15 minutes...the major pains will be getting the barrels back on the pistons ( I'll need some extra hands for that) and keeping track of the cam chain while I disassemble everything. I break the chain and then use lengths of saftey wire to allow me to lift the head clear while keeping tension on the chain, then grab the wires below the head and remove the head, same process with the cylinders...then I tie off the wires to keep tension on the chain while I perform the work. If the chain comes off the crank it can be a bitch to get back on. If everything goes smooth...could be a couple of hours...if I have problems...maybe five hours.
Everyone send good luck vibes that it's something simple.
JohnnyB
I have spare hands, little piston stoppers, and tiny ring compressors that work well. Do you have back up studs, accorns, and helicoils? I wont be up to Loudon on Friday till the afternoon. If you get there and need a real shop to work out of, let me konw.
Aaron
Aaron
Aaron,
Thanks, the ring compressors might come in handy. I'm bringing spare studs, heli-coil kit, gaskets etc.
Scott has offered his garage for Friday afternoon to work on the bike. I'll be getting there about 2-3pm Friday.
I asked George to have Hiroshi's bike there by then. I'll probably drop my trailer and load up the truck with the tools and drive over to the garages.
JohnnyB
Thanks, the ring compressors might come in handy. I'm bringing spare studs, heli-coil kit, gaskets etc.
Scott has offered his garage for Friday afternoon to work on the bike. I'll be getting there about 2-3pm Friday.
I asked George to have Hiroshi's bike there by then. I'll probably drop my trailer and load up the truck with the tools and drive over to the garages.
JohnnyB
Me fingers are definetly crossed for ya ! I know those cam chains are a biyatch cuz its the same set up on the 305's. Is that motor a 360deg or 180deg?
georGe <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
georGe <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
George,
360 degree.
The sloper 175 is even tougher than the verticle engines because on the verts you can kind of drop the chain loop straight down. On the slopers the cylinders are angled too much. Although I'll probably have the engine out of the bike anyway so I guess I could just tilt it if I have too. At least they are pretty easy to time the cam.
JohnnyB
360 degree.
The sloper 175 is even tougher than the verticle engines because on the verts you can kind of drop the chain loop straight down. On the slopers the cylinders are angled too much. Although I'll probably have the engine out of the bike anyway so I guess I could just tilt it if I have too. At least they are pretty easy to time the cam.
JohnnyB
might as well take the engine out of the bike. Then it can be up on one of your nifty stands!!
Well, the weather has improved, the garages are cheaper, and who knows, the fix will be easy for H's bike!!
scott
PS. The garage is under Larry hayden's name, but I'll be there by 2 pm on Fri. we are sharing
scott
Well, the weather has improved, the garages are cheaper, and who knows, the fix will be easy for H's bike!!
scott
PS. The garage is under Larry hayden's name, but I'll be there by 2 pm on Fri. we are sharing
scott
21 - 40 of 44 Posts
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