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Discussion Starter #1
I was talkin' with another dude about painting motorcycle frames, he said he wasn't going to bother with primer. Couple reasons given, makes the final coat too thick, and therefore easier to crack/chip, and also it doesn't harden properly, even when waiting longer than the time given on the can, and therefore also causing finish coat problems.

I must say, I've had mixed results with just about every brand of rattle can paint available. Given that I don't have a great moisture or dust control situation, I'm thinking of just using a brush on type of metal paint. Anybody have experience, good or bad with Rustoleum or other brands? Or any other paint "systems" that hold up well? I'm not going to spend a whole lot on this, if I wanted the best, I'd just powdercoat the whole thing, but I don't think it's worth it for this application.


FR
 

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You could always go the tremclad route but I don't know how well it will hold up, you can paint directly onto the bare metal without primer. If I were you I would check into the price of powder coating the frame as it is cheaper than you think. I had a set of wheels from a ninja I had powder coated for a friend of mine and it was $60.00 for the two. I have had good luck with high temp paint on some of my dirtbikes

Hey someone pas me the wrench........ Ahh screw it where is the torch
 

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You could always go the tremclad route but I don't know how well it will hold up, you can paint directly onto the bare metal without primer. If I were you I would check into the price of powder coating the frame as it is cheaper than you think. I had a set of wheels from a ninja I had powder coated for a friend of mine and it was $60.00 for the two. I have had good luck with high temp paint on some of my dirtbikes

Hey someone pas me the wrench........ Ahh screw it where is the torch
 

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I've used SEM brand etching primer for lots of things. It's available in bomb cans. Doesn't have the material buildup cheap primers do. My local parts store will mix acrylic enamel with hardener for me and put it in spray cans. They emphasize this is not approved by the paint manufacturers but I've never had a problem.

I also have an industrial powdercoater in my town. They will throw small parts in a batch for next to nothing. The couple things I've had them do weren't perfect, but plenty good for a rider. They powdercoated the pieces cheaper than I could have bomb canned them. So if you're thinking powdercoat and it doesn't have to be perfect look for a production shop that can throw your stuff in with a big job.

04 KDX 200
05 KX 250f- SOLD!
01 GSXR 750
75 GT 550
68 Chevelle
 

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I've used SEM brand etching primer for lots of things. It's available in bomb cans. Doesn't have the material buildup cheap primers do. My local parts store will mix acrylic enamel with hardener for me and put it in spray cans. They emphasize this is not approved by the paint manufacturers but I've never had a problem.

I also have an industrial powdercoater in my town. They will throw small parts in a batch for next to nothing. The couple things I've had them do weren't perfect, but plenty good for a rider. They powdercoated the pieces cheaper than I could have bomb canned them. So if you're thinking powdercoat and it doesn't have to be perfect look for a production shop that can throw your stuff in with a big job.

04 KDX 200
05 KX 250f- SOLD!
01 GSXR 750
75 GT 550
68 Chevelle
 

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i powder coated the frame on my first restoration (street bike) and although it's not exactly like the original finish (a few ticks glossier) it still looks as good today (even the down tube behind the front wheel) as it did when i got it done 20 years ago. the stuff is practically bullet proof. i use krylon gloss black on my racer because it is easilly touched up in the event of a mishap/weld/repair/alteration/improvement...these things happen on a race bike. krylon is available virtually everywhere and is very forgiving to use. (you can just about paint in a blizzard and have it come out descent). and don't use flat paint; it's feeble. chemically speaking, the reason gloss paint is glossy is because of the binders in the mix. binders make surfaces tough and resilient, therefore better looking longer. rustoleum is tougher than krylon, resists rust better (duh) but takes longer to dry (if that's important) and doesn't touch-up/blend as well. and brushing on the paint will look like shit and take a long time both to apply and dry...why do that?
parks
 

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i powder coated the frame on my first restoration (street bike) and although it's not exactly like the original finish (a few ticks glossier) it still looks as good today (even the down tube behind the front wheel) as it did when i got it done 20 years ago. the stuff is practically bullet proof. i use krylon gloss black on my racer because it is easilly touched up in the event of a mishap/weld/repair/alteration/improvement...these things happen on a race bike. krylon is available virtually everywhere and is very forgiving to use. (you can just about paint in a blizzard and have it come out descent). and don't use flat paint; it's feeble. chemically speaking, the reason gloss paint is glossy is because of the binders in the mix. binders make surfaces tough and resilient, therefore better looking longer. rustoleum is tougher than krylon, resists rust better (duh) but takes longer to dry (if that's important) and doesn't touch-up/blend as well. and brushing on the paint will look like shit and take a long time both to apply and dry...why do that?
parks
 

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Discussion Starter #8
quote:
i use krylon gloss black on my racer because it is easilly touched up in the event of a mishap/weld/repair/alteration/improvement...these things happen on a race bike. krylon is available virtually everywhere and is very forgiving to use. (you can just about paint in a blizzard and have it come out descent). and don't use flat paint; it's feeble. chemically speaking, the reason gloss paint is glossy is because of the binders in the mix. binders make surfaces tough and resilient, therefore better looking longer. rustoleum is tougher than krylon, resists rust better (duh) but takes longer to dry (if that's important) and doesn't touch-up/blend as well. and brushing on the paint will look like shit and take a long time both to apply and dry...why do that?
parks
The powdercoat route is too expensive, I had a frame done a few years ago, and it's nice and all, but too much money for this project. I'm thinking of brush on because it's also easy to touch up, and may hold up better than spray on. And for a racebike frame, it doesn't need to be show quality. Krylon looks ok, but I've seen rust come right through it, even with primer, after a few months of exposure.

Never heard of tremclad, I'll look into it. I've seen SEM, in fact I've used some of their stuff now that I think of it. I might look at that too.

FR
 

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Discussion Starter #9
quote:
i use krylon gloss black on my racer because it is easilly touched up in the event of a mishap/weld/repair/alteration/improvement...these things happen on a race bike. krylon is available virtually everywhere and is very forgiving to use. (you can just about paint in a blizzard and have it come out descent). and don't use flat paint; it's feeble. chemically speaking, the reason gloss paint is glossy is because of the binders in the mix. binders make surfaces tough and resilient, therefore better looking longer. rustoleum is tougher than krylon, resists rust better (duh) but takes longer to dry (if that's important) and doesn't touch-up/blend as well. and brushing on the paint will look like shit and take a long time both to apply and dry...why do that?
parks
The powdercoat route is too expensive, I had a frame done a few years ago, and it's nice and all, but too much money for this project. I'm thinking of brush on because it's also easy to touch up, and may hold up better than spray on. And for a racebike frame, it doesn't need to be show quality. Krylon looks ok, but I've seen rust come right through it, even with primer, after a few months of exposure.

Never heard of tremclad, I'll look into it. I've seen SEM, in fact I've used some of their stuff now that I think of it. I might look at that too.

FR
 

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Having painted and or powdercoated a dozen or so frames. I agree with Parks....first of all...if it's a race bike DON'T powdercoat it, you will really reqret it when you have to repair damage, weld on a tab here or there or change anything.

I've painted them with and without primer...with primer the paint seems to scratch down to the primer very easily, without primer you sometimes have flaking/chipping problems. I recommend a chemical metal prep/etcher and then a quality rattle can paint like...yes Krylon...like the man said, it's very forgiving. Also I've used quality rattle can paint from autobody stores and have very good luck with it...acrylic laquer I think it is, drys very quickly and to a very nice gloss, and touches up nicely.

A street bike will get a lot more abuse from the elements, powdercoat is a good option if you are sure the bike is the way you want it and will not require any welding etc. I have a powdercoating system and oven right in my shop...and I've learned to be very careful what I coat....it's a real pain to remove.

My first few race bikes I was really concerned about the looks. Now I've learned it far better to have a bike that looks nice...but is easy to repair and touch up. When it comes to rattle can primer...the only kind worth a crap is quality sandable primer from an autobody supply store. The best is of course the two part epoxy primer that must be gun sprayed.

I used to paint my bikes with a beautiful alfa romero blue automotive paint, Deltron DBU....excellent expensive paint....I got tired of spending $200 and hours of time to repaint every time I crashed. Until you have found out if you are a crasher or not....don't use expensive paint, don't run a fairing. I typically crash a couple of times a year....so I'd be a crasher.
JohnnyB
 

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Having painted and or powdercoated a dozen or so frames. I agree with Parks....first of all...if it's a race bike DON'T powdercoat it, you will really reqret it when you have to repair damage, weld on a tab here or there or change anything.

I've painted them with and without primer...with primer the paint seems to scratch down to the primer very easily, without primer you sometimes have flaking/chipping problems. I recommend a chemical metal prep/etcher and then a quality rattle can paint like...yes Krylon...like the man said, it's very forgiving. Also I've used quality rattle can paint from autobody stores and have very good luck with it...acrylic laquer I think it is, drys very quickly and to a very nice gloss, and touches up nicely.

A street bike will get a lot more abuse from the elements, powdercoat is a good option if you are sure the bike is the way you want it and will not require any welding etc. I have a powdercoating system and oven right in my shop...and I've learned to be very careful what I coat....it's a real pain to remove.

My first few race bikes I was really concerned about the looks. Now I've learned it far better to have a bike that looks nice...but is easy to repair and touch up. When it comes to rattle can primer...the only kind worth a crap is quality sandable primer from an autobody supply store. The best is of course the two part epoxy primer that must be gun sprayed.

I used to paint my bikes with a beautiful alfa romero blue automotive paint, Deltron DBU....excellent expensive paint....I got tired of spending $200 and hours of time to repaint every time I crashed. Until you have found out if you are a crasher or not....don't use expensive paint, don't run a fairing. I typically crash a couple of times a year....so I'd be a crasher.
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tremclad is called Rustoleum "Stops Rust" here in the states. The color selection is a little different here in the US but overall it is the same crap. The industrial rustoleum here in the states is a little heavier duty but the colors are really limited.

The rustoleum is a rust paint (not unlike por15) which means you can paint right over bare metal. It has much better adhesion than krylon which is not self leveling and can be porus sometimes depending on how it is applied.

There is a whole group of people out there that use this stuff to paint cars, sometimes with a roller (I use it to paint bikes with a roller). Believe it or not the quality of the paint itself is no better than Maaco uses for their basic paint (single stage enamel). The only down side is that it takes about a month to fully cure.

If you need a single stage polyeurathane, brightside yacht paint is awsome, self leveling, and super durable - plus it doesn't require as much sanding (they use it on salt water yachts for crisstake). $35 a gallon and that is enough to do a car with. Again it is self leveling so you can do it with a roller or buy it in spray cans. It does need its own primer if you are going to paint over rusty surfaces.


My technique with spray cans is to go very light - 6 coats of really light spraying is equilavent to 3 coats heavy coverage. Using the rustoleum I usually wipe the area down with mineral spirits, and then let loose. HAlfway through if I am getting orange peel I will wetsand with 600 and then 1000 grit. I usually go to about 8 coats then wetsand the final coat with 1000 grit, polish with compound an wax. Hella durable. When using semigloss or flat rustoleum I just spray 4 -6 light coats after wiping down with mineral spirits.

for a roller I thin the rustoleum 80/20 (paint/ mineral spirits) and then roll it on with a super fine white trim roller. I usually give a day between coats to let the previous harden so I don't get heavy peel or crinkle finish. After 8 coats (yes it takes 8 days to paint a frame) I will wetsand with 1000, polish, and wax. You can see yourself clearly in the reflection. it is awsome.
 

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tremclad is called Rustoleum "Stops Rust" here in the states. The color selection is a little different here in the US but overall it is the same crap. The industrial rustoleum here in the states is a little heavier duty but the colors are really limited.

The rustoleum is a rust paint (not unlike por15) which means you can paint right over bare metal. It has much better adhesion than krylon which is not self leveling and can be porus sometimes depending on how it is applied.

There is a whole group of people out there that use this stuff to paint cars, sometimes with a roller (I use it to paint bikes with a roller). Believe it or not the quality of the paint itself is no better than Maaco uses for their basic paint (single stage enamel). The only down side is that it takes about a month to fully cure.

If you need a single stage polyeurathane, brightside yacht paint is awsome, self leveling, and super durable - plus it doesn't require as much sanding (they use it on salt water yachts for crisstake). $35 a gallon and that is enough to do a car with. Again it is self leveling so you can do it with a roller or buy it in spray cans. It does need its own primer if you are going to paint over rusty surfaces.


My technique with spray cans is to go very light - 6 coats of really light spraying is equilavent to 3 coats heavy coverage. Using the rustoleum I usually wipe the area down with mineral spirits, and then let loose. HAlfway through if I am getting orange peel I will wetsand with 600 and then 1000 grit. I usually go to about 8 coats then wetsand the final coat with 1000 grit, polish with compound an wax. Hella durable. When using semigloss or flat rustoleum I just spray 4 -6 light coats after wiping down with mineral spirits.

for a roller I thin the rustoleum 80/20 (paint/ mineral spirits) and then roll it on with a super fine white trim roller. I usually give a day between coats to let the previous harden so I don't get heavy peel or crinkle finish. After 8 coats (yes it takes 8 days to paint a frame) I will wetsand with 1000, polish, and wax. You can see yourself clearly in the reflection. it is awsome.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks. I suspected there was a better way.

I'll let you know how it comes out.

FR
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks. I suspected there was a better way.

I'll let you know how it comes out.

FR
 

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if it helps here is a very very long series of posts on painting automotive and motorcycle with a roller. The original poster is from canada and used tremclad so there is some discussion as to the differences between tremclad and rustoleum (both made by rustoleum by the way and there is very little difference). There are a lot of tips and photos here and it is all very clear. Lots of real good tips. The biggest issue with roller painting is the dust and for the people doing hard shines with little imperfections they sand between every two coats Also you can't leave the rustoleum exposed to the elements until it has cured, the guy with the miata did that and it went all to shit. Once the last coat has been on for two days glaze and wax it (it takes a month or so to fully cure) and that will keep the sun from destroying it.

I spent a week reading this and I am pretty sure I could do show quality work if I spent enough time, good paint will only get you so far, good solid prep (sanding, etc) will get you a lot farther.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2655425&page=0&fpart=12&vc=1
 

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if it helps here is a very very long series of posts on painting automotive and motorcycle with a roller. The original poster is from canada and used tremclad so there is some discussion as to the differences between tremclad and rustoleum (both made by rustoleum by the way and there is very little difference). There are a lot of tips and photos here and it is all very clear. Lots of real good tips. The biggest issue with roller painting is the dust and for the people doing hard shines with little imperfections they sand between every two coats Also you can't leave the rustoleum exposed to the elements until it has cured, the guy with the miata did that and it went all to shit. Once the last coat has been on for two days glaze and wax it (it takes a month or so to fully cure) and that will keep the sun from destroying it.

I spent a week reading this and I am pretty sure I could do show quality work if I spent enough time, good paint will only get you so far, good solid prep (sanding, etc) will get you a lot farther.

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2331682&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2655425&page=0&fpart=12&vc=1
 
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