ULWSV vs LWSV

2820 Views 42 Replies 10 Participants Last post by parks61, Apr 4, 2007

n/a

Discussion Starter · Mar 31, 2007

Just got my newsletter and after reading the rules changes. I don't understand why they are putting the MT125R Honda in the LWSV when the ULWSV class was designed for the MT.

Champ

Save

1 - 9 of 43 Posts

Last year the only "real" ULWSV bikes running were Turk now and then, Marty maybe once, Champ on his new bike. Turk and Marty started running in LWSV (and placing top three) because there was no one to run against in ULWSV. I think it was a grid size thing. Most of the bikes in ULWSV were 200gp or 250gp bikes.
A lot of the 200gp bikes were running in 200gp, 250gp and ULWSV in the same day.
JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #6 · Mar 31, 2007

Last year I though ULWSV was the bump class for 250gp along with 350gp...or at least it should be. The MT's are kind of screwing up the speed index. You have Turk that's just plain fast, and Marty who is fast and weighs 120 lbs.
But realistically...ULWSV times are about 3-4 seconds quicker than the fastest 200gp times. Not sure about 250gp...I'd guess the fast 250 guys are about the same as ULWSV?
As is usual with classes that don't have a lot of bikes in them, it mostly depends on who shows up at what race. Judging the ULWSV speeds by Turk and Marty might not be the best way to decide how fast a class is as a whole.
Champ, you can still run your 250 in 250 and 250 right? And your ULWSV in ULWSV and LWSV? That's not too bad.
JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #9 · Mar 31, 2007

I assume ULWSV is two stroke only? They make no mention of four strokes in the class.... cause I got some ideas you know.
JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #12 · Apr 1, 2007

"Ultralightweight Supervintage:
Up to 200cc-single or twin 2-stroke air-cooled engine from approved list "

See...that says two stroke...no mention of four strokes...and I've never seen the approved list.
It's kind of a cool class, very specific, just need more people running in it. I'd hate to see it become another "run what you brung" class...even though I like to bump into it. The MT's, TA's and such are real race bikes, nice that they have their own class....just need more people to get them out of the living room and on to the race track.
JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #19 · Apr 1, 2007

That means 250gp bikes can only bump into 350gp? Kind of a big bump. Of course Roper manages it. They should let 250 bump into FCB...nahhh...that would be embarrassing for the 350's.
JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #21 · Apr 1, 2007

You're right...never thought of that.

And there is the thongs.

JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #26 · Apr 2, 2007

I think the USCRA classes can be a bit skewed by the fact that we don't have the number of races or size of grids that will shake out a "True" average.

For instance...in my case, typically in ULWSV I can finish 3-4 ahead of all but the fastest guys in the class with my 200gp bike. And Zack showed that a 200gp bike slower than mine can go a second faster than I do. Which....doesn't really mean 200gp bikes are the equivilant of ULWSV bikes...it just means that the balance of the ULWSV class isn't up to speed yet like Turk, Marty or Champ are.

When you put an ULWSV bikes in LWSV it doesn't mean they are necessarily fast enough to run there on average...it means that Turk, Mary and Champ are fast enough to run there.

See what I mean? It takes six or seven races for the "trends" to show up. Yeah Roper can almost win 350 gp at will on a 250gp bike...but will that be the case when running AHRMA size grids and number of races?

When I look at the way 200gp is setup it seems just about perfect. I always have a shot at winning a 200gp race. I have an chance of winning a 250gp race if the fast guys don't show up, same with ULWSV....I'll beat some of them in both cases...but if the top half of the class shows up I don't have a chance. A 200gp bike shouldn't be truly competitive in a full grid of either 250gp or ULWSV. But...since often the grid will be missing the prime time players..I might have a shot.

I don't think there should ever be a bump class where the fastest rider in the lower class can win any time he wants in the bump class no matter who shows up.

But then there are the exceptions like Roper and Turk...can you really make any intelligent decisions on speed indexes when looking at guys that are leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in both machinery and skill? You just have to live with those guys...they set the example for the rest of us and it's also unfair to skew the classes just to keep that kind of rider from winning.

From what I've seen of most ULWSV riders they are appreciative of the true racing pedigree of their bikes and don't mind mixing it up with bikes considerably (or potentially) faster than theirs.
JohnnyB

See less See more

Save

jbranson

· #38 · Apr 3, 2007

Champ's got a TA right? So he still gets to run in ULWSV....while the MT's go to LWSV. So I'd think without Turk and Marty in the class that he'd stand a better chance of a championship.

Bear in mind....last year Marty ran his MT in LWSV once....he won. Turk ran his MT in LWSV once...he won.

So if anyone is going to be upset about it...probably should be the LWSV guys.
JohnnyB

Save

jbranson

· #41 · Apr 3, 2007

I can tell you where the source of the change probably came from...the fast guys in ULWSV were all starting to run only in LWSV because there wasn't any real competition for them in ULWSV. Can't blame them for wanting people to race against.

But like champ says...the class was created specifically for TA's and MT's as far as I know. Kinda weird to move them out of there.
JohnnyB

Save

1 - 9 of 43 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month