Vintage Suzuki Superbike

522 Views 19 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Belkster, 2 d ago

rich46

Discussion Starter · 22 d ago

We are trying to rebuild two engines for our 1993 GSX R1100 W. We have run into a huge problem in that we can not find any main bearings. I would list the part numbers except that there are so many numbers superseading other number that the list would be crazy long. The bearing fit 100,750 and may even fit 650 and 900's the most important thing is crank journal size and our engines show a measurement of ( BROWN) know the cases show no size other than the Suzuki size range of BROWN.

So does anyone know of a good NOS shop, vender, guy who just has all kinds of old Suzuki part laying around? We want to go racing sometime this year so we sure need some help or ideas.
Cheers
Rich

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TrialsRider

· #2 · 22 d ago

Brown is a tolerance code isn't it?

TrialsRider

· #3 · 22 d ago

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rich46

Discussion Starter · #4 · 22 d ago

TrialsRider said:
Brown is a tolerance code isn't it?

yes

rich46

Discussion Starter · #5 · 22 d ago

rich46 said:
yes

rich46 said:
yes

TR, That doesn't really help in that we need bearings that are the proper width, edge chamfer and oil hole location. We never thought that Suzuki would use such specialized bearings. This said I've talked to quite a few well know crankshaft firms and this is not a unique problem we're having. That is why we're on the hunt for a firm that may have proper NOS. This being said thanks for the info. I is very close to what our cranshaft build had told us to use sadly they have retired just before the plague with no way of contact.
Cheers

woodsman

· #6 · 22 d ago

www.nospartsnow.com

NOS Suzuki GS1000 GS1100 GS850 GSX1100 VS1400 Bearing 09263-35004

NOS Parts NOW is Buying & Selling New Old Stock Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Parts Honda Yamaha Kawasaki Suzuki

www.nospartsnow.com

Crankshaft - Engine - GSX-R1100 G-J - Vintage - Vintage Bike Parts - Suzuki

shopvintage.suzuki.co.uk

TrialsRider

· #7 · 22 d ago

Once new old stock is gone on a part like that, you either make, modify or substitute something that will work, or the machine is on the way to becoming non-serviceable. Seems to me you're looking for 35mm shells with a thickness of exactly 1.5mm and that sounds like something that might have been used on a slew of different machines. If you can't buy it by part number then you will need to buy it on spec. Width, chamfer and holes drilled in them is something you might even be able to work around, an oil passage groove down the middle of the bearing (as shown) would near impossible to add, so if you need that and can't find one with a similar feature, ya'll might be out of the obsolete suzuki racing business before long.

rich46

Discussion Starter · #8 · 22 d ago

TrialsRider said:
Once new old stock is gone on a part like that, you either make, modify or substitute something that will work, or the machine is on the way to becoming non-serviceable. Seems to me you're looking for 35mm shells with a thickness of exactly 1.5mm and that sounds like something that might have been used on a slew of different machines. If you can't buy it by part number then you will need to buy it on spec. Width, chamfer and holes drilled in them is something you might even be able to work around, an oil passage groove down the middle of the bearing (as shown) would near impossible to add, so if you need that and can't find one with a similar feature, ya'll might be out of the obsolete suzuki racing business before long.

TR, The main reason I keep trying to find a proper set is I'm sure there are several out there that I only need to locate. This is because up until the late '90's early2000's this size was pretty much the go-to bearing for 600cc and up Suzuki multi's 650's to 1100's so all I need to do is keep looking. Right now we have found about half of what we need to have 's

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rich46

Discussion Starter · #9 · 21 d ago

woodsman said:
NOS Suzuki GS1000 GS1100 GS850 GSX1100 VS1400 Bearing 09263-35004

NOS Parts NOW is Buying & Selling New Old Stock Vintage Japanese Motorcycle Parts Honda Yamaha Kawasaki Suzuki

www.nospartsnow.com

Crankshaft - Engine - GSX-R1100 G-J - Vintage - Vintage Bike Parts - Suzuki

shopvintage.suzuki.co.uk

Woodsman. Thank you for your try. Neither firm has either. Suzuki has part numbers one for the top bearing and one for the bottom. I was surprised that they don't come is bearing sets as do most everything else I've worked on. You order one bearing at a time so for the GSX R1100 W you ordr six top bearings and six bottom bearings. For me the good news is that I've found lots of bottom bearings and they are the ones with the oil hole so we may be in good shape after all/ Thanks again as you did help us find lot of one side. Cheers to ya !

woodsman

· #10 · 21 d ago

Glad you mentioned it because I found it pretty strange they only sell one at a time. Never having bought any for a bike I thought maybe that was the way the OEMs sold them.

rich46

Discussion Starter · #11 · 21 d ago

woodsman said:
Glad you mentioned it because I found it pretty strange they only sell one at a time. Never having bought any for a bike I thought maybe that was the way the OEMs sold them.

Yea it is strange they come 1 bearing half to a box 12 boxes for a rebuild. My machinist was saying that for the cost of packaging that way they could sell you a whole engine set in a blister for the same price as 1 journal in bower like Suzuki does not to mention how many times does someone replace one bearing half ?

TrialsRider

· #12 · 20 d ago

The likely problem is they don't really know what size shells they are making until after they produce it, then quality control has to determine what part they just made and code it, or if they made a piece of out of tolerance range scrap.

TrialsRider

· #13 · 20 d ago

How it's made should do a show on them

rich46

Discussion Starter · #14 · 20 d ago

TrialsRider said:
The likely problem is they don't really know what size shells they are making until after they produce it, then quality control has to determine what part they just made and code it, or if they made a piece of out of tolerance range scrap.

TrialsRider said:
The likely problem is they don't really know what size shells they are making until after they produce it, then quality control has to determine what part they just made and code it, or if they made a piece of out of tolerance range scrap.

I'm working with a fellow who was a second level Suzuki factory engine builder.. What I was told is as the cases are aligned bored the factory guys check the bores with a mice. Often it takes the removal more material to get the bores true that means a different bearing. So the cases go into stacks with each pile representing a different bearing size to maintain proper clearances. Seems to be a wee bit involved when i compare it to the British and American blocks I'm used to; I wonder if it's the best way to do this when working with thin aluminum cases where you can't really use things like torque plates to keep things from moving around.

TrialsRider

· #15 · 20 d ago

With a tolerance adjustment range of only 18 micron on the crankshaft journal diameter and 15 micron variation on the bearing shell thickness, I think if Suzuki didn't throw out too many cases and crankshafts during production then they did an admirable job with the machine accuracy. We are talking in measurements smaller then the human eye can see without a microscope.

rich46

Discussion Starter · #16 · 19 d ago

TR, In the olden days I was involved with USA road racing builders of Austin Healy, British Leland and from time to time Jag. We would go to the UK in January to pick up engine bits. The engine line foundry manager would know things like when in the process the engine blocks or crankshaft material was the best (If I remember correctly they had a special name for the best cranks calling them RED cranks; why that name I have no clue) those parts would be marked and set aside. Where the machine work was done the manager there would have us wait for the crankshaft machine to have been re-celebrated with fresh tooling and after a number of shafts had been run. Then we would get the next however many we were there to pick up. Those being set aside for the final processes. It is really amazing how much better the world has gotten in things such as the machining. Back in the day we would teardown new vehicles to race prepare. Being a flunkie and if we didn't have any factory race parts it was my job to pull the engines down. I do not recall ever finding anything other than standard main and rod bearings in those virgin engines. Because of this I assume that the clearances were far more shall we say liberally looked upon. We would also see a 10 to 20% difference in oil pressure at idle between two engines.

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CaTacL1sm

· #17 · 19 d ago

Super interesting!
Thanks for the insight

rich46

Discussion Starter · #18 · 19 d ago

Hmmmmmmmmmmm I guess he doesn't like us all that much

jalsteve

· #19 · 17 d ago

https://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gsxr1100w-1993-p-usa-e03_model16075/bearing-crankshaftbrown_1222917e000c0/

Belkster

· #20 · 2 d ago

rich46 said:
TR, In the olden days I was involved with USA road racing builders of Austin Healy, British Leland and from time to time Jag. We would go to the UK in January to pick up engine bits. The engine line foundry manager would know things like when in the process the engine blocks or crankshaft material was the best (If I remember correctly they had a special name for the best cranks calling them RED cranks; why that name I have no clue) those parts would be marked and set aside. Where the machine work was done the manager there would have us wait for the crankshaft machine to have been re-celebrated with fresh tooling and after a number of shafts had been run. Then we would get the next however many we were there to pick up. Those being set aside for the final processes. It is really amazing how much better the world has gotten in things such as the machining. Back in the day we would teardown new vehicles to race prepare. Being a flunkie and if we didn't have any factory race parts it was my job to pull the engines down. I do not recall ever finding anything other than standard main and rod bearings in those virgin engines. Because of this I assume that the clearances were far more shall we say liberally looked upon. We would also see a 10 to 20% difference in oil pressure at idle between two engines.

On some modern machines, they have clearly forgotten to add RED cranks 😃
In general it amazes me how there can be a 10-20% difference in engine idling.
Are the factory workers negligent in their work or is the negligence inherent in the production itself? I mean, is due diligence for strict quality a necessity or is it the company's wish? It's just that 10-20% is a lot...

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