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Discussion Starter #1
Guys, If at all possible, google your reps (it's easy to find them and send an email) and politely point out the effects of $3 gas on your life. I don't know about you, but it's doing a job on my disposable income. The govt has geared their road infra structure load at $2 per gallon, so they are enjoying a 1/3rd tax increase here, money they don't need, but will spend. And does anyone else wonder why Exxon is getting away with a 41 billion profit this year? This is a like a national "Katrina" happening here and no one seems to give a shit. Write, as each letter represents something like 10,000 people. It really is time to get involved, even in a small way, and take back the govt while there's still something left.

And I hope everybody here votes (they say American Idol has more people voting than in an election; can that be true?). The status quo loves it when people don't vote, because of that small percentage most vote along party lines as each party boogyman's the other side, and leaves the election up to a small group that often can be influenced by their spin departments. Boy, it'd be nice to see a grass roots movement kick in and take hold, here. But really, all that takes is you!

Dgy
 

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Not much our vote can do about gas prices....I guess they could reduce the tax, that would drop prices about ten cents. Gas and oil prices are based on futures contracts sold in the us/world comodities market. Other than tax the govt has nothing to do with prices, and oil companies have nothing to do with gas prices.
Well...the oil companies are in possible colusion when it comes to supply concerns....but the problem is no new refineries...we have the tree huggers to thank for that. And...I can't see an oil company spending 5 billion to build a refinery that will LOWER the price of their product.
The US has 100 billion barrels in uptapped reserves in our own country....guess what, thanks to the EPA we can't drill for them (100 billion barrels would by the way make us bigger than any OPEC supplier).

Sad fact is....we'll never see gas below $2.50 again in our lives. Even if a new refinery was started right now...they take five years to build. And they'd spend ten years in the courts fighting the tree huggers.

JohnnyB
 

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even though i am in a business that on a daily basis is responsible for the destruction of the forests, i think they really do good work sometimes. they are the ones who forced the move towards reforestation. for hundreds of years we were mowing down trees without a thought of how we'd be able to sustain the environment and the industry. in the past 5-10 years there are alot of species of lumber that have become more and more scarce and way less usable with waste factors climbing because of the loss of old growth. they were just going in, and taking the bigggest things they could get. domestically and non domestically. have you tried buying a piece of feq 12/4 s.a. mahogany lately?? much less pattern?? good luck. and if you can get it your probably looking at about 15 a b.f. min and its not soley because of export bans etc....its because there is so little left in general. domestic cherry is in the same situation. 30%+ waste factor and forget getting anything big. even an a1 ply has about 25% sap and thats acceptable now a days. if it werent for the huggers, we'd have alot less left because of the greed of big business. and thered be no future. just imagine the yield a huge redwood has. its probably a good thing thats all protected or some jackass would have mowed it down 50 years ago. now im not totally disagreeing with you. but to paint them in that kind of light i think is a little unfair. and yes, i try to buy only farmed lumber if i can. unfortunately, no matter how much they force this stuff, it still doesnt yeild what a 150 year tree can. and thats a real shame. we should have been figuring this shit out 75 years ago. yeah, it does make my job tougher, but to know that there is a possibiity that in 50 years someone will be able to have a solid cherry table built because i had to pay a litttle more for mine, is great. theyre really not so bad.

as for gas, well, if we werent so dependant on it, this wouldnt be a problem. retirement packages and bonus' and the need to drive the biggest fucking thing on the road lead to all of this. typical ignorance. if i didnt need a big truck for work, theres no way id have one. i know this country is full of lazy, fat, ignorant people and all i can say to them is ya better get ready to start walking or riding a bike if you dont have good public transportation. it already costs me 100 bucks to fill my 32 gallon tank. and i get about 375 miles out of it. thank god for motorcycles.

you know what they did in maryland to not raise taxes 2 years ago??? they doubled all the dmv rates. nice huh? and have you heard about the deregulation of residential gas end electricic rates here??? they are saying 70% increases in your gas and electric bills come july. ours runs about 200 a month in the winter. (we tore out everything last winter and put in all new windows and insulation through out the entire house to try and help) anyway, personally, i dont see anything wrong with preserving as much as possible. fuck, maybe it'll get some of those fat asses off the couch and force them to walk to work.

yeah, i am angry.

jc
 

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By Tree Huggers I don't necessarily mean tree people....although they do survive on the myth of less forest land. Truth is there are about 40% more forest land in the NE than there was 100 years ago.
Next time you go hunting 20 miles from nowhere back in the woods...and see the stone walls everywhere you go...well those were farm fields. I think it was T. Jefferson that wrote about the ride from NYC to Albany....where you would not see a single tree on the entire trip.

What I think is cool is that environmentalist have helped put us in a situation where heating oil is $3 a gal....so what does everyone do for where I live....we start burning trees to heat our homes....cool, that's well thought out.

I don't think anyone is the sport of motorcycle racing is in a position to talk about waste. We waste hundreds of gallons of fuel a year towing our shit to races and then burning leaded fuel in our race bikes.

I will grant you that easily half our problem is that fact that 110 lb women like to ride around by themselves in giant SUVs and small dick guys like to drive around in big diesel trucks that are empty 90% of the time. I certainly don't blame it all on environmentalists, or the oil companies, or us....it's a combination of all.

However I've got no bitch about the prices....it's just a fact of life, it's not going to change. It sucks...but it's the bed we made for ourselves. We live in a retarded world where about 30% of the people out there will actually tell you gas prices should be HIGHER than they are now. Course they are same people that claim to care about the poor, hard working, underpaid people of the country...mean while they don't mind the high gas prices cause they can afford it, while the lower middle class struggle to heat their homes. Course they have an answer for that too....more tax so you can give it out to heat homes.

The final answer to high fuel prices.....use less fuel. Adapt or perish.
JohnnyB
 

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Just paid my bills for the month. I used 722 KWH of electricity this month....guess what, that's the least monthly amount I've used in the 20 years I've lived here. Why, cause I'm adapting baby. How much heating oil do I normally use in a winter? 900 gals....how much did I use this year? 200 gals....why? I adapted and burned wood that I get off my own property for free.

I've got efficient applicances, I use energy saving light bulbs, heat with wood, I designed and built my own passive solar home, even the trees in the yard are setup to let sun through in the winter and block it in the summer. I piss twice in a toilet before I flush it, and since I like to take hot baths....in the winter I leave the water in the tub till it gives up it's heat to the house. The hot water tank is IN the house so any heat lose goes into heating the house, walls are 2 x 6, windows 1" argon double or triple pane.

I thought about all this 20 years ago, I take care of myself, I don't depend on or wait for others. My shit breaks, I fix it. I need something, I make it, I want something, I work for it.

Luckily I only drive about 150 miles a week for business (not counting driving to work). I do most of my work for small government agencies...so I pass the cost on to them...and they just tax everyone more to pay for it.

OVERCOME, ADAPT, IMPROVISE!! RECON BABY!!!

JohnnyB

PS. Go here to find the lowest gas prices in your area: Right click on map for detailed station lists in your county.

http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx



Edited by - jbranson on Apr 24 2006 02:20:10 AM
 

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JB,
Back in the early 70's gas was about .50/gal and a good machinist was making $5/hr. Now gas is $3/gal and we pay $25/hr for a machinist. It's close to the same percentage.

FC
 

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frank,

you had a good trade then and now. the poor are the ones getting royally screwed here. a legislator is proposing to tax the oil companies record profits.......

don't think it will happen. he/she just wanted some good press. even if it did.....its not like senator douchebag is gonna send john public dickbag a check every month.

it's gonna hit $100.00/barrel before summer is over. i'll get a job in the city and ride the train. anyone want to buy a van? i got two of them.........

tex

"dude, my boots feel like they are filled with rain slushies!"
 

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Right now adjusted for inflation gas prices are 15 cents away from the record high.....oil will be at a record high when it hits about $90 a barrel.

Common sense conservation would probably go a ways to lower prices. If the greedy bastards in the comodities market see that there is plenty of oil for the next year or so they will stop buying it up and move on to something else.

I remember gas hitting over $1.00 back in the late 70's, early 80's. I remember being pissed that it never dropped back below .50 again.

The upside to oil company profits is that they'll be spending a ton on exploration.....so we'll have oil for years to come...but we'll be still be paying a lot for it.

Like Tex says, use public transportation more, ride the cycle and the bike, drive the Honda instead of the truck when you can. Giggle when you turn out a light.
JohnnyB
 

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I don't think the CEO of Exxon is going to spend his $40 million salary/bonus on oil exploration. I really don't see an up side to the kind of profits the oil companies have made on the market speculation since Katrina.
I have no confidence for instance, that they'll reinvest in their fleet of oil tankers and rigs to improve their safety and security in an effort to eliminate oil spills.
And I suspect that they'll be back asking for more subsidies from the government to explore for oil, because China and India are out there competing for the same drilling rights.
I can't accept the "windfall" profits in the face of what's happened in the last year. Dgy is right.

FR

ps. Fuck Exxon

Edited by - FR on Apr 24 2006 09:30:17 AM
 

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Oil execs get the same giant checks all the other big CEO's get. Do you expect all of them to spend their money on your behalf?

I don't see anybody offering to pony up donations for the oil companies when times are hard for them. Why should they pony up for us when times are fat?

I treat other peoples wallet just like I treat my own. I don't give my money away, I don't ask other people to give me money.

And they will spend money on exploration...it helps ensure their future profits. And they spend only the money necessary to meet the safety requirements of law....just like every freakin other industry in the world.

Demonizing a publically owned company is the typical cop out of fat americans that have to always blame someone, or something else for their own greed (yes our pension funds, retirement accounts etc are buying oil stock), waste and lack of fore thought. If I can't have what I want, and have it cheap then I'm going to blame someone else.

Even the idea that the government is making more money on gas tax is wrong. Gasoline is taxed by the gallon, not a percentage. So as fuel prices go up...people buy less fuel...the government actually makes LESS money.

At least Oil companies are keeping the money here....meanwhile we all shop at Walmart, and buy our Chinese tools so they can afford the oil we can't. Yep..it's all the oil companies fault....imagine that, a company turning a profit on the waste, gluttony and greed of the people. Yeah they are easy to target, instead of the people making the real money....US, the owners of the publicly owned oil companies, and the hedge funds, and the mutual funds, and pension funds, and the retirement accounts. PUBLICALLY OWNED!! Get it? We have met the enemy and it is us.
JohnnyB
 

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OK JB, "Let me make this perfectly clear".

I disagree with Bush's record tax breaks for the oil companies during a time when we are at war, the oil companies are making record profits, and the distributors are gouging the market, which I don't need a congressional investigation to see.

I don't envy the CEO's money and I don't want him to give me any, but I think it would be overly generous to correlate the oil companies profits with a new greater effort from them towards exploration. Once again, I think they'll be back to the political trough looking for aid.

I think there is a precedent for companies to invest in safe environmental and socio/economic practices, even when that investment may take decades to pay off.

And I certainly don't mind companies making huge profits. I'm very careful about where I spend my money. I will not set foot in Walmart or Costco. I avoid purchasing Chinese made products when possible, but that can be extremely vexing these days, as I may wind up driving around quite a bit to find an alternative.

Walt Kelly was right though, we are our own enemy as a society, and that hasn't changed since he wrote that.

And you're partly right, I'm demonizing a corporation, and what I left out was the political machine, and in this case the two go hand in hand.

FR
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Wait a minute, let me get Rod in on this...NOT!

I hear what JB is saying here, but what do you expect; the guys a reincarnated Viking. JB, you still have the model of America past whirling in that little drug induced noodle you call a mind (except it won't ;)- Dude, I'm with you if this was 1950 America, a simpler time when there was loyalty between corporation and employee, but this is 2006 and we are back to the future where greed is king, money is god, the gloves are off, and old Biff is fucking your mother.

Politics and business work hand in hand as the unscrupulous make Jimmy Stewart's nightmare in "It's a Wonderful Life" come to life, they're just more sneaky about it. What, do you mean to tell me that all these wonderful corporate types have America's best interests in mind?! Please, these guys privatize the profits and socialize the losses. One need only look at the joke the CEO's and their hand picked boards, lips firmly attached to his ass, have become. There is no fairness here, the "haves" have, and will have more, and that comes from somewhere. We are no longer the big American engine, but instead now are more like a battery that discharges a little more each year.

That's the system, though, and always has been. It's just that now big American money has run out of little podunk 3rd world countries to pillage, so they've turned within (it was big British money, not so long ago). Money's not evil, it's the love of money that's evil (and you don't have to be rich to be evil like that, it's infected everybody). People want to be short sighted when they think they're getting something for nothing, but they never do. That Chinese fully suspended mountain bike that you bought for your kid down at Walmart for $49.99 will eventually cost you much more. I know, how do you stop it when it's an avalanche like this? I don't know that you can, I think there has to be a wreck.

I know a lot of my thoughts are running together here and it may sound a little strange, but my point is that there's not just one thing that you can put your finger on and say, "that's the problem". The problem is what we've become. The problem is what the worlds become. People cannot simply live and let live anymore, if in fact they ever could. There is now a mad scramble on to grab all the money and power you can get your hands on while the gettin' is good.

Step back and take a look, it's as plain as the nose on your face.

Fear and greed equal trouble. Faith and love equal contentment. The former is now in the saddle and twisting the stick. This is nothing new as civilizations go, but as with all journey's we will one day arrive at our destination, and I'm not looking forward to the day when this train pulls into the station.

You won't agree with me, JB, and this won't be the first time. But that's fine, I respect your opinions as always. As for who's right, we shall see.

Regards,
Dgy
 

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I'll be the first one outta here if Rod shows up . . . Unless he's already here.




Edited by - imslow on Apr 24 2006 7:44:44 PM
 

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Discussion Starter #15
He ruined the SKULLS line. I would've tossed him if it weren't for the fact that's he's Pete's cousin. I met him once. He's about 3 feet tall, can't look you in the eye, and is just as bad ...well, never mind.

Dgy
 

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Well you'll get no argument from me that greed and power on both corporate and private levels are the main problem.

I guess my stance is, I don't think greedy CEO's should be legally prevented from getting big checks...but it sure would be nice if they had the personal values not to WANT that much.

Since the 80's and the ME generations it's snowballed into grab as much as you can while you can. It's saturated all walks of life, from the Ghetto to the Boardroom.

My big worry is that when you get the govt. involved in anything it will end up being trouble. Today they put restrictions on the oil companies...tomorrow they put restrictions on me.

What about all the Italians...why can't we squeeze some oil out of them...literally.
JohnnyB
 

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Discussion Starter #17
They asked Rockefeller how much was enough. He said, "Just a little more".

What you say about restrictions cuts both ways; how about this. The govt invades privacy without warrants of supposed terror suspects and many say this is just fine, but it sets a precedent.

As far as the govt setting limits on publicly held companies, well there's the operative word here, "publicly held". It is the govts job to protect the public, so what's the hold-up here? As for you and me, we aren't "public".

There seems to be a bad mingling going these days, and it seems it's either a in-your-face violation of our constitution and laws, or a wholesale apathy of duty towards upholding them.

The foxes are watching the hen house, and they're eating well these days. We really do need a grass roots movement, and a grass roots movement is just you and me, and him and her, and so-on. We need someone to look out for us and I don't think we'll find it in either of the two existing parties.

Personally (I don't like either party), I think the Republicans went on a power trip because of their majority rule and are in bed with the corporations, and I think the Democrats want to keep this knife in our side until the next election cycle so they can use to their advantage (but watch those idiots run Kerry again, and lose again; and things would have to be unbelievably bad for Hillary to win), so I don't expect to see much of an investigation happening here.

Did the govt really make all of those owners of those older less productive wells in Texas and so on, pour cement down them after the last time prices were high enough to validate their use? Anybody know?

CAIO, uh I mean "regards",
Dgy
 
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