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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
if both pipes were coming from the same side i would do this, but with them coming from opposite sides of the motor you need to put a 180 into one of them, and/or move the merge out to the right and then it starts getting pretty long.

anyway, in my case it was a rush job time and effort thing. i had a day to use what i had to make it fit and i was going for a look. not that i expected it to work this crap, but i'd not tried it before. it's a learning process - it either works or it doesn't. you just move on as required, but it's always much nicer when it works - that way you don't have to do it again differently.

the actual stamped steel plate cross over that it originally has is not an issue - an st4s will make 120 hp through it as easily as a 996 will make 120 hp out of a nice x pipe collector. how far my welded on curve sections bring the join toward the exit (as in not close enough) might be an issue. all other variables will be removed next dyno session. if my theory about the muffler is true then i need to work out how to get it back to the look i want.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
so i got the lovely cnc'd caliper adapters, and i sent the floating disc carriers out to have them reanodised as they had been gouged a bit and were a bluey-grey colour. i got them done in gold, hoping it'd be like the original brembo carrier gold. but it's flat and bright at the same time sort of thing. i don't want to strip the hard ano off because i want it there for wear resistance, but maybe i just need to paint them a little, softer gold.

whadayas reckon?

170325 (2s).jpg

170325 (4s).jpg

170325 (8s).jpg
 

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Seems to me that they prpbably designed and built the system originally with a fully welded/fabbed tubing x-pipe then someone told them it needs to be mass produced faster and cheaper and the stamped piece was a created as close to the original as possible.

if both pipes were coming from the same side i would do this, but with them coming from opposite sides of the motor you need to put a 180 into one of them, and/or move the merge out to the right and then it starts getting pretty long.

anyway, in my case it was a rush job time and effort thing. i had a day to use what i had to make it fit and i was going for a look. not that i expected it to work this crap, but i'd not tried it before. it's a learning process - it either works or it doesn't. you just move on as required, but it's always much nicer when it works - that way you don't have to do it again differently.

the actual stamped steel plate cross over that it originally has is not an issue - an st4s will make 120 hp through it as easily as a 996 will make 120 hp out of a nice x pipe collector. how far my welded on curve sections bring the join toward the exit (as in not close enough) might be an issue. all other variables will be removed next dyno session. if my theory about the muffler is true then i need to work out how to get it back to the look i want.
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
so i got back to the dyno today finally.

red is the original headers and two of the megacycle mufflers. blue the 2-1 header with the danmoto muffler from the previous. green is the same as that run, but with one of the megacycle mufflers instead of the danmoto. bit richer, more power - possibly different wideband sensor to the last runs. wacky. yellow is with one of the airbox lid snorkels removed. nowhere near as lean as the runs from last time with a snorkel out, not sure why.

so it dyno'd like it felt with the megacycle muffler - better, and pulled through the top end nicer. still down on power though.

m400 31.PNG

so, some conclusions of sorts.

1/ muffler doesn't work.
2/ 2-1 header doesn't work.
3/ it's way too rich. i will ignore that for as long as i can't be fucked pulling the airbox out and playing with the jetting.
4/ original headers don't work anymore due to the lack of muffler mounts due to the ducabike rearsets. one has dug oneself a hole.

dyno time is getting expensive, plus it's time away from work i don't have to waste. maybe i need to get the data logger out and have a go with that. it's a 400, it's not going anywhere fast so on road tuning is an option of sorts.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
it's a 400, but otheriwse everything around it - airbox, carbs, exhaust - is the same as that fitted to the 600, 750 and 900. so all the bolt ons make 80hp easily on a 900. apart from the hurt any std muffler or airbox inlet will put on volumetric efficiency, none of it is sized to restrict this little engine at all. it's undervalved as well, but i'm not going to pull the heads and get into that. if you want one of these to go better, you fit a bigger engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #49 (Edited)
As it sits now. well, i got the rearsets on to position the rear brake master so i could measure how long the brake hoses need to be and i'll get them made this week. 171028 (24)s.jpg

i downloaded some free cad and drew the rear brake caliper bracket, then sent the drawing out to a water jet cutter. i was pretty pleased with this - something i had't done before, and it worked!

rear caliper bracket final.png
170921 (2)s.jpg
170921 (4)s.jpg

and it finished. The inner sleeve piece is a 17mm front axle sleeve nut from a 41mm Showa fork that I bought a few of many years ago on a specials release. Machined down to reduce the final od of the outer spacer, which is a shrink fit on the inner sleeve so all 3 pieces are now an assembly. Due to the design of the wheel, there's not a lot of clearance between disc bolts and bracket.

171028 (1)s.jpg 171028 (2)s.jpg 171028 (3)s.jpg 171028 (4)s.jpg 171028 (5)s.jpg 171028 (13)s.jpg
 

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nice fabbing brad
jeezus yeah not lot of clearance
if a guy was concerned the bracket could be clearanced to half thickness in that zone

thats just the kinda thing i'd be looking at/ chain off of course ,up on a swinger stand just spinning it round .lookin at it mind wandering
then i would get some kinda idea ,sidetracked,and standing up i would reach down to steady myself
right in the path of those rotor bolt heads
thats the way i would do it bludgeoned n bloody
 

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Discussion Starter #51
nice fabbing brad
jeezus yeah not lot of clearance
if a guy was concerned the bracket could be clearanced to half thickness in that zone

thats just the kinda thing i'd be looking at/ chain off of course ,up on a swinger stand just spinning it round .lookin at it mind wandering
then i would get some kinda idea ,sidetracked,and standing up i would reach down to steady myself
right in the path of those rotor bolt heads
thats the way i would do it bludgeoned n bloody
you'd only do it once.

well, if you had any sense you would. i'd do it every bloody time i touched it. again and again and again.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
i made some little brackets to lower the front mudguard 22mm to suit the smaller tyre.

171104 (1)s.jpg 171104 (3)s.jpg

i fitted the new brake hoses i had made up. lengths worked out well, which is always a nice surprise. given the caliper face for the hoses is almost vertical, i didn't think of getting some shallow angle banjos on the hoses at the caliper end, but it certainly would have made it nicer to fit them. i had to angle them out sideways a fair bit to allow getting a spanner on the bleeders. took a shitload of bleeding to get it sort of ok. i was curious to see how it'd work with the 13mm master. it was very firm with the single caliper, almost wooden like, so i thought i'd give it a go. i've got the 15mm master that came off the 851 somewhere, so i can fit that if needed. i put the 16mm remote res master than came off my sport 1100i to that, but i want the coffin style on this bike.
 

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took a shitload of bleeding to get it sort of ok.
Did you try taking the calipers off and pushing the pistons all the way back in then remounting? That up n over hose can trap air, too.

After that, zip tie the brake lever closed overnight, rebleed in the morning.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
started with pistons back (calipers, esp rh, were dry), calipers off and rolled around all angles while tapping, tapping hoses with bike lent to both sides, lots of slow/fast lever cycling with bike lent to left. just really odd. it's on the sidestand at the moment with the lever zip tied. will hopefully get into the factory today to see if it comes up. i don't really know where my 15mm master is, and it has been off a bike for 15 or more years too, so it might be rooted.

with the single caliper it was rock hard and almost wooden, like the master was too big. this gets pressure at about the same lever travel, but the lever goes to the bars pretty easy. i need pressure as it's back to organic pads for the cast iron discs. didn't expect it to be this hard.

rear caliper has both the hose entry and bleeder at the bottom, couldn't be worse location wise, and the master has the outlet at the top with a 90 degree down on the hose from there. bled straight up. bastard.
 

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I always fill mine through the bleeder screw using a really big syringe and a chunk of plastic gas line, makes it super easy to get the air out. Highly recommended if you have never tried doing it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #57 (Edited)
i have one of them. i actually tried that the other day on another bike that turned out had a blocked compensating port in the master. thought the pressure might forced it through, took a drill bit instead.

i was going to do that on the rear, but figured that the upside down caliper would benefit from being right side up, so i passed it up above the swingarm and held it up. seemed less messy in theory.

not sure if this one has some air in the calipers (one has been off a bike for 10 + years) i can't shift or what, but it's a real pita. the small master shouldn't effect the bleed as such, but maybe it's masking it a bit? dunno.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
no change to the front brake. went for a ride - it works, with a lot of lever travel. you could pull the lever to the bars if you wanted, but i think by then it'd be stopping very quickly. perhaps a little too. pads need to bed in a bit too, but it just felt like the master is too small. woka woka woka. the 15 is 33% bigger, the 16 51%. think i'll go the 16. i get a nice new lever that way too.
 

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Discussion Starter #59 (Edited)
171105  (11).JPG 171105  (10).JPG 171105  (9).JPG

and the to do list. the speed sensor is a bit of a pain in the arse, not sure what i'm going to do there.

171105  (12).JPG
seemed to ride ok with the 16" wheels. i didn't get too into it as i tried the rear brake early in the ride and it locked straight up. i know i wiped the tyres down when i fitted them, but that was a while ago and the slippery comes back over time. so i was a bit wary of any hint of hooking in.

maybe feels a bit odd mid corner, like the front's a long way away. but it felt a different odd before anyway. these forks have heavier linear springs, but it seems to have a lot of sag. i did an oil change last week when the lower triple was out getting powder coated, and it had about 11mm preload from memory. maybe i should drop them out again and put some more preload into it.
 

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Considering those calipers are probably the P4 30/34 pistons, yeah, I would think 13mm is probably a little small for a dual caliper setup.

In the ducati monster bible, it says the early year Monsters that used the axial P4 Brembos ran 16mm master cylinders for dual disc models and 13mm for single disc models. Monster 750 vs 600 MY-1996-1999

Sounds like just too much hydraulic fluid to move rather than an air/bleed problem.

I have a set of 40mm axial Brembo monoblocks racing calipers on the shelf. Bought them used but still pricey as hell. Titanium vented pistons, narrowband. Used them on a BMW trackbike build before the S1000RR came to the market. Now they are just interesting nearly vintage coffee table pieces.
image.php?image=x101740_rit_p14706_647fb3.jpg

BTW, the red paint on the lettering comes off with brake cleaner. How stupid is that?
 
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