[XB33BSA]

I am having a GREAT deal of trouble with cognito moto with my drop triple tree and stem for my R75.
Just saying...

i lost any faith in cognitomoto when i saw the morons using a cotter to secure a triple to a stanchion tube
i mean that is just plain dumb it wont hold at all like a clamping situation and using it on upsidown forks will dent the fucking tubes and right at the cap threads
it just goes to show making simple pretty parts on your cnc means fuck all as far as being a designer of good working parts

 

[wooda2008]

Good to see another woodchuck on the forum.. Carry on

 

[deaconblues]

Wanted to post an update even though there hasn't been any progress that could show in a picture. Still waiting on parts from Lithuania to convert the rear wheel to 17" and some other odd and end like a steering damper. (going to use the same system the gsxr used)
I finally got the reworked head swapped on to the engine. I was pretty sure the RFY shocks would still be just spring holders even after a rebuild and recharge, but for the money and time I'm a bit surprised at how adequate they perform. I had been thinking that the bike was overpowered without all the bodywork and weight removed from the rear of the bike it would feel a bit loose coming out of turns, especially left hand turns.
After installing a hoop in the rear and a lot of testing and adjusting the forks and shocks I was almost ready to put a stock front end and shocks back on the bike. I put it back on the lift and saw the stamped steel brace on the swingarm has torn away right under the driveshaft and more the swingarm bushing on the same side is already oval trash.

I can't get the camera in there right now to show the extent of the tear.
I need to figure what has gone wrong. Are these two unrelated problems coincidentally located next to each other? Did one lead to the other? Is it something else I did that affected the swingarm? The bike was buried well over the swingarm in mud but looked intact when I changed the bushes initially. It's possible I damaged the bushing when installing it. At this point, since the bike now runs and rides and stops I think upgrading to needle bearings would be a good option. Problem is I don't have either the skills to determine if there is some tiny bend or kink to the frame that would be damaging the swingarm. I can tell the wheels, forks and neck tube are straight but that's as far as I can get right now as I'm between shop spaces. (long story involving my boss, booze and the police). I ordered a used swingarm to use once I give up trying to repair this one with my crappy flux core welder.
I'm not sure about running a splash guard in the back or some fender and all the electrical is still homeless. I haven't even decided whether to use a keyed ignition switch or just a toggle. I'm pretty happy putting the battery between the rear motor mounts at a 45 degree angle. For some weird reason I don't like the idea of putting any more weight on the swingarm as I've seen people put batteries there. I also need to finish the bodywork on the seat cowl and then finish the upholstery which I am wholly unqualified to do.

 

[hillsy]

Are the frame and swing arm straight? Looks like it's had a hit in its day. That's pretty much the only way that bracing could be damaged like that. Would explain the fubar'd bearing as well.

 

[deaconblues]

Are the frame and swing arm straight? Looks like it's had a hit in its day. That's pretty much the only way that bracing could be damaged like that. Would explain the fubar'd bearing as well.

It very well may have been hit, as the stock front end was a miserable mess including bent fork legs. The frame is straight and that swingarm was intact when I changed the bushings out earlier this year. It didn't even have bearings but what seemed like plastic. I had the machinist at our shop turn some new ones out of some polyurethane ones that came from some older Vance and Hines race kit. The problem is that everything worked as it should* until a few spirited test rides. (DISCLAIMER Don't ride your half built project on the road! Our shop is located adjacent to a airport. I'm not riding bikes like this down the street)
*I may be going overly critical on this 30 something year old bike with the modern front tire and forks, but the rear has never felt as planted as I would like. It rides great at the legal limits, it's when really pushed hard that it gets a bit dance happy.

 

[Cyorg]

Judging from your photo, that swing arm looks awfully rotten. Maybe all the rust perforation has something to do with it. I wouldn't ride that the way it is. You might also want to take a small hammer with a pointy end and tap around the lower part of the frame. If there are any spots on the frame that look like the swing arm, you might want to put the whole thing back where you found it.

 

[TrialsRider]

Sorry but, you've built the kind of Bitsa that I just don't get. The front forks, wheel and brakes look way too beefy, the motor is massive and everything behind that quickly turns to shite.
It's not weight that is tearing the marginal bits apart it's torsion.


... steering damper is great in concept but what are you going to attach it to that doesn't already flex and wiggle?

 

[deaconblues]

It's not weight that is tearing the marginal bits apart it's torsion.

That's what I've been thinking the entire time too. After all It looks like Honda copied most of this spine frame from a Bonneville. The Hinckley ones? I'm not too sure. But I have kept the HP kind of close to stock and replaced a lot of the stock 22g gusseting for some much healthier stock as well as added some bracing where the top of the stock sub-frame appears to have been just laid on top of the rest of the bike. After looking at quite a few used swingarms to replace mine it looks like the 550 Honda ones were not built to the same standard as the 650 and 700 of the same era. They could interchange but the bigger cc bikes have taller final drive gears and are considerably longer. I'm going to replace mine with one in better shape until I can jig the original one and replace the stamped bracing with something a little stronger.

I'm going to attach the steering damper from the stock mount in the gsxr lower yolk to a beefed up version of the steering stop on the neck tube. I don't want to do that until the new shop is in order because all I have is a crap Lincoln flux core welder. It's fine for an exhaust repair on a 96 civic but not this.

 

[TrialsRider]

2 things that will test your swingarm integrity real fast; on a chain drive bike having the chain too tight and on a shaft drive bike having a spline joint seized up.

oh make that 3; getting rear ended by a truck.




:| it's a cruiser frame so occasionally you need to remind yourself that Honda designed, spec'd and intended it for bopping down to Dairy Queen not for go fast.

 

[XB33BSA]

open your eyes ya dopes fer fucks sake dont go blaming the war on a soldier
rust has eaten that swingarm.period
lesson learned? you got it out of mud
its junk nothing but scrap
the frame is very likely similar condition unless it was bat acid that was focused on the area of the torn ujoint boot
acid migrating then to the caverness interior lol
but yeah check the frame any place where liquids could settle drill 3mm holes to check wall thickness of tubes and formed sealed gusset structures
goddamit how could you not ........

 

[XB33BSA]

and yeah it looks stupid as all fuck out,i am embarassed for you
great job of making a shit motorcycle out of a very good one ,like all the other sheep

 

[TrialsRider]

Could be right but in my experience rusty iron don't bend it breaks

 

[hillsy]

Might have got rain in it then froze.

 

[XB33BSA]

rusty iron does indeed break, even when not rust it is fractile,butt-eye dyegrass
zinc-steel even jap 3 shit 12 times recycled aluminum lead steel bends without breaking
it is probably just "surface rust" (those 2 words together are a lie and a hoax) move along nothing to see here
but srsly that is bat acid work somebody pulled off the vent tube drop and maybe years latr,used an automobile charger on the dead bat

 

[deaconblues]

The frame is in remarkable shape considering. The swingarm definitely had rust on the bottom side but not rot. It may seem like not much has happened by a string of pictures but I've had this thing apart to the last nut and bolt cleaning and inspecting it. I wouldn't have even mentioned the swingarm stuff here it was in shit shape to start with (like I need to add fuel to get this thing flamed here) It was in a passable condition, enough that I stuck my ass over it and gave it enough hell that it decided to actually rip... Fear not, a new one is on its way and I'm already searching out needle bearings to put in place of the "very good" plastic that was there originally.
In all seriousness I appreciate the forum. The knowledge base is unequaled and the flaming is entertaining, and on some days motivating (My thread ends with an actual, running bike, with fenders. Not on page 2 with a stupid flat black half a POS bike that can't get out of it's way. Hell, most of the folks around here are gonna need a sporting liter to get by me)

and yeah it looks stupid as all fuck out,i am embarassed for you
great job of making a shit motorcycle out of a very good one ,like all the other sheep

This is your "very good"?

And this is shit?

ARRGHHH!!! One of these days I'm gonna build a bike that everybody loves!!! You just wait and see!
Then you'll be sorry you ever laughed at the time I built a weird ass bike out of a little wrecked piece of trash!!
Long live the 80's UJM's!!!!

Edit; Your absofrickenlutely right. That damn battery vent is exactly above that spot. That's why most of the ones I've looked at are in worse shape than mine... Drips right down inside that boxed in part...

 

[XB33BSA]

the right plastic bushing is far better in many ways to a drawn cup needle bearing and is an easier install
just get new inner bushings oem for the plastic to rotate on or take a skim cut off the originals in the lathe
go to igus.com
there iglide bushings are amazing better than that yellow crap(bronze) better than any rolling element bearing in this type of application no lubing required but old habits do die hard i put my last ones in and greased them for assembly.
they come in lots of metric and inch sizes i found direct replacwement for my sl350 flange type
the only issue i found was the honda swinger bushing bores gave about .010'' interference fit
stoned as a rat i plodded on and beat them into the swinger bores
only after slamming all 4 home did i go oh shit those bushings are now bell mouthed because the flange ends are not crushedv
i realized creful measuring and spud turning the od of the iglide was in order with just about a slip fit
i asked the engineers about bonding the iglide in a less than interference fit
yes loctite 400 series is the go to
superglue
the astounding thing is this shit is tougher than metal
when i realized they needed sizing and would need to be driven out i thought fuck they will get totally fucked up
i was pissed off and did not feel like fabbing a simple tool to drive them out they were too tight anyway they surely will get destroyed coming out
i picked up a 1/2'' round steel bar ugly on both ends and dam near threw out my elbow by the time all 4 were beaten out and none of them showed any witness to the savagery
so yeah the needle bearings are passay old news totally outdated
the best part is igus will sell you even small pidly orders and register with them chat up the engineers on live chat and your first order can be free as in a samples
i paid 4 dollars each
but have gotten free bushings on another project

 

[deaconblues]

the right plastic bushing is far better in many ways to a drawn cup needle bearing and is an easier install
just get new inner bushings oem for the plastic to rotate on or take a skim cut off the originals in the lathe
go to igus.com
there iglide bushings are amazing better than that yellow crap(bronze) better than any rolling element bearing in this type of application no lubing required but old habits do die hard i put my last ones in and greased them for assembly.
they come in lots of metric and inch sizes i found direct replacwement for my sl350 flange type
the only issue i found was the honda swinger bushing bores gave about .010'' interference fit
stoned as a rat i plodded on and beat them into the swinger bores
only after slamming all 4 home did i go oh shit those bushings are now bell mouthed because the flange ends are not crushedv
i realized creful measuring and spud turning the od of the iglide was in order with just about a slip fit
i asked the engineers about bonding the iglide in a less than interference fit
yes loctite 400 series is the go to
superglue
the astounding thing is this shit is tougher than metal
when i realized they needed sizing and would need to be driven out i thought fuck they will get totally fucked up
i was pissed off and did not feel like fabbing a simple tool to drive them out they were too tight anyway they surely will get destroyed coming out
i picked up a 1/2'' round steel bar ugly on both ends and dam near threw out my elbow by the time all 4 were beaten out and none of them showed any witness to the savagery
so yeah the needle bearings are passay old news totally outdated
the best part is igus will sell you even small pidly orders and register with them chat up the engineers on live chat and your first order can be free as in a samples
i paid 4 dollars each
but have gotten free bushings on another project

These look very promising! That Q2 model seems just the ticket but no prices listed, there are however a few of these J sleeve bearings they don't have the same endurance but they are vibration dampening, same reason they used plastic to start with right? These are definitely getting a try, even if they don't have an exact size I can put them in the lathe or Bridgeport you say?

Wow, that website is fantastic. It even has a service life calculator. What a tip! Even my Arduino projects are gonna benefit. Big ups to XB.

 

[TrialsRider]

... and another motorcyclist discovers elastomeric bearing plastics
Personally I use Thordon myself Thordon Bearings

 

[TrialsRider]

any sharp tools that work on wood will generally work on the plastics.
Is best to make your bore holes undersized and then ream or machine them to an accurate size rather then turning a bushing and compressing it into a tight sleeve fit where the material will compress and distort from the desired bore size.

Used in swingarm bushings the plastic will have some advantages but a needle roller bearing is still the best performing swingarm pivot bearing available, rollers have the advantage of negligible friction and free-play clearance approaches zero. You don't want any free-play or bushing flex in your swingarm pivot or your bikes handling goes for a shit.

 

[deaconblues]

WTH. Why is a company like Vance and Hines still using polypropylene and delrin??? The stuff I used came directly out of their race package for the XR1200. Granted the structural integrity was compromised by some machining. For the price of one set of V&H motor mounts I can get 5ft of bar stock and never need to buy another swingarm bushing again.
This. This is why I don't waste time at DTT or bikeexit or whathaveyou. (No offense to those) But if I can't be at the track talking with those guys every weekend this serves a good placebo to the LRRS guys.